Power Imbalance
It was great to finally speak to someone. After three months of silence, broken only by the odd automated veiled threat, this felt like we were going to get some clarity and maybe, just maybe, the human touch we received from the other creditors.
He introduced himself as Head of Collections and Recoveries at YouLend. We’ll call him J.
J explained that my case had been put on his desk due to the stress and dissatisfaction I’d expressed. He claimed he’d reviewed my experience, the situation as a whole and was asking how we can find a solution.
This was sounding very positive. This was sounding reasonable.
J’s demeanour changed slightly and asked a few questions about the business liquidation and am I able to speak on behalf of my wife ( a fellow director and signatory of the PG too ) before saying “I apologise if you haven’t felt the empathy and support provided”.
I explained that there wasn’t any empathy nor support, that we’ve been able to have adult dialogues with our other creditors but when it comes to YouLend they’ve just ignored us or said we’ll need to pass it to debt collection. I was concerned that this can only means going after our house as we are both unemployed and have nothing to give them.
J tried to be empathetic but I could feel the switch to damage control mode. He explained that YouLend are only a Short Term Lender and that at the point of them being unable to recover in line with contractual terms they start a process whereby they sell the debt to a “renowned debt purchaser” who can operate with more “flexibility”. He asked if I’d put two and two together and come up with one hundred about them taking my home and double checked that no one from YouLend had made such an “elaborate” statement. I replied that it’s a reasonable assumption to make based on our financial position and YouLend pushing the narrative of passing to debt collection.
Now the interrogation started. The questions started flowing about other creditors and about our financial situation. I was happy to answer fully as this was the first open dialogue with YouLend. It moved on to asking about the other creditors and their responses. J asked if I minded telling him what the arrangement was with our other creditors. I asked if he’d read my letter from December. He replied “I’ve read a lot of the emails and listened to a few of the calls, so forgive me. Do you want to just remind me?”
He’d not even bothered to read my original letter. He’d not even bothered to read my Standard Financial Statement.
I reiterated the contents of the letter and our proposal for a token interim payment. J was very interested to hear that the mortgage was being maintained.
J asked what we’ve got by way of income ( we’ve borrowed some money from my parents to keep the lights on ) and wanted to know details. The whole tone of his call felt like entrapment, each question attempting to put on record something to catch me out with. I said I wasn’t happy discussing this with him and that we are on Universal Credit and we have documented all our finances on the SFS.
He pushed. He asked for 6 months of bank statements for my wife and I. Out of nowhere he mentioned my solicitor. He suggested they’d make me aware it’s a “general requirement” to give them the information. Bizarre. He continued, saying that with this information we could enter into an “affordable and fair” repayment plan, that he’s willing to consider us asking him to accept a pound per month for a short period as per my letter, and that’s it’s “not just fair, to the wider picture, but its affordable to you”. He mentioned my solicitor again, suggesting I touch base with them and if I want them to speak to YouLend directly that’s not a problem. All to cover his own back.
I capitulated. I said for full transparency I’ll send through the bank statements and an updated SFS like he requested.
Now that YouLend was going to have full transparency into us, I asked for the same in return. I asked what the next steps would be, based on the proviso that they were comfortable with our financial position being as we described.
J responded : “I don’t know at this stage. I mean, in terms of transparency I can provide you with a copy of the contracts so that you can seek advice on them. “
The penny dropped. J wasn’t ringing me to flesh out a solution. He was ringing me to cover his own back. To make sure he’d ticked enough boxes. To see if there was anything he could get me to say to suggest that we were misleading them. He had nothing else left to offer apart from giving me copies of contracts he knows they’ve already sent as part of the initial default process.
J reiterated that he needed the financial information to make an assessment. I explained that the only bit of information that he wanted updating on was the financial side and therefore it wasn’t a financial assessment here. I asked if we could take it as read that we can afford to pay them £1 a month and based on that, what do the next steps look like ?
His response :
“That's you saying that this affordable, but we haven't made that assessment. You know, it's like me saying I'm looking out the window now and I can see a red car. How do you know that's a red car sitting out there?”
This guy is very senior at YouLend. He’s unable to grasp basic concepts such as hypothetical constructs or genuinely believes we can’t afford £1 a month, in which case what is he pursuing us for ?
I again asked for him to take it as read that we can afford the £1 a month and that I wasn’t saying his position was accepting the proposal, just that hypothetically please talk me through the next steps.
J replied :
“I don't know the answer to that, because I'm not in a position to make a decision on that. As a decision maker, I can't make decisions without facts. I don't have the facts. You're saying that you can offer one pound per month, and if that is what I deem to be fair and affordable, then I'll accept that. If that's not what I deem to be fair and affordable, that's not something I will accept. And then we'll have a further conversation, and we'll explore the next steps.”
I tried a few more times. J wouldn’t comment on it at all. He refused to discuss what the hypothetical paths forward might be. He refused to give me any guidance on what our next steps would be. He maintained the position that I needed to give him all the information on my wife and I but that YouLend could remain a black box. At this point he again mentioned my “lawyer” and that he’ll be asking for their details. The flexing of the power imbalance was clear. I was nothing to YouLend.
J now wanted to get off the phone. He said he’d taken up enough of my time and mentioned that he’d email me a summary of what I needed to send him and that he’d include one of his team as he was due to be on annual leave shortly.
J now went lower. He asked if I could “just for transparency” ( the one way street ! ) outline and explain what we’ve done in the last three months to change our particular position. YouLend are now asking me to grovel, explain and justify to them how a family are struggling to get back into employment after losing everything!!
YouLend want FULL personal financial access AND a pleading letter explaining why my family are worthless. This power imbalance is horrific.
J now thought it was an appropriate time to turn the screws even further :
“I think the other thing it's worth mentioning as well is that this may now go on to have an impact on your personal credit files as a result of the recent default against that loan. It may show as a negativity if we can't get a fair and affordable arrangement in place.”
It went full circle. All initial emails from YouLend were threatening and predatory. And now, J’s agenda was clear to see. I explained that he is not a responsible lender, it’s taken them three months to respond to me and after all this they won’t talk through the situation, they’ll only cling on to it being a recorded conversation and now it’ll effect you personally.
J then went even lower. HE LAUGHED AT ME.
He actually laughed at me. He then continued to talk over me about having a duty to make me aware of possible outcomes.
I asked him if I could have a copy of this phone call. He explained that I needed to make a Data Subject Access Request. He said they’ll then take 60 days to get back to me. Again let me say, this is the Head of Collections and Recoveries at YouLend. This person doesn’t know the basics about GDPR as the limit is currently 30 days.
J then asked me how long it will take me to get him the financial information. I flippantly said I should treat him with the same contempt he treated me and 3 months seems a fair and reasonable time. He said 7 days is fair. I then asked him, just so it’s recorded on the call, what the date of my original letter to YouLend was ( the one he didn’t bother reading ). He said “we’re not talking about the letter”. I asked him again for the date of the letter. He said he’ll put it in the email to me and then . . .
HE HUNG UP.
After taking legal advice we were advised to withhold the bank statements. It was felt that YouLend were overreaching by asking for so much personal information. It was also our position that YouLend were being incredibly disingenuous and irrespective of whatever information we furnished them with they were going to reject our proposal. It appears their sole aim was to pick the ball up that they’d dropped and continue their normal predatory route straight to debt collection.
We responded within their 7 day timeline :
Dear J,
RE XXXXXXXXX LIMITED
Many thanks for your email dated xxxxxxx.
We are under no legal obligation to provide the information in the format that you’ve requested. Your request has not been made in good faith, appears to be consistently predatory in keeping with all communication from YouLend to date, and is not something that other creditors have asked for. We have however attached an updated Standard Financial Statement as per your request. This has been compiled in conjunction with XXXXXXXX and should be satisfactory.
I must explicitly state that “we” did not confirm a seven day response time. It was a topic of discussion in which you failed to engage and ultimately put the phone down on me. This will be clearly evident in the call recording I will be requesting. You decided the truncated deadline to make it more difficult for me to obtain legal advice within the timeframe.
There were several other inconsistencies with your position as mentioned on the call. I will be taking these up in addition to my treatment to date via a formal complaint.
You have requested “evidence regarding your confirmed vulnerability”. Again, this is very predatory and antagonistic language. You have received the SFS Summary on the xxxxx and again with this letter. The contents of this clearly show that we are struggling to keep a roof over our heads and put food on the table. This is the very definition of vulnerable and you asking for more information on this shows how condescending and out of touch you are with a family who has lost everything with the insolvency of their 8 year old family business.
My wife and I are both now unemployed. We are both hardworking individuals who have never been unemployed since leaving school. Based on the advice we have taken we are applying for benefits to get us through this tough time. XXXXXXXXX has been our entire lives for the past 8 years and it is heartbreaking to have lost everything. We have also started a search for new jobs as we have to get back into work as a top priority and improve our circumstances to enable payment to our creditors.
I enclose a budget sheet which shows my total income and my outgoings. As you can see, I have no money left to make offers of payment to my creditors.
Because of my circumstances, please agree to me making a token payment of £1.00 each month to be reviewed in six months.
YouLend is the only creditor who is behaving in this predatory and condescending manner.
All other creditors are being wholly supportive at this difficult time.
Yours faithfully
Despite J being on annual leave, his response came within minutes.
Dear XXXXXXXX,
Thank you for your email and attached letter, the contents of which have been noted.
I understand and respect your decision not to provide supporting bank statements. However, just as you are under no legal obligation to provide them, YouLend is also under no legal obligation to accept a repayment plan that we cannot deem fair and affordable. As such, your offer of £1.00 per month has been rejected, as has your wife’s offer of the same.
You may wish to seek free debt or legal advice for further clarity on our position and your options moving forward.
Since we have been unable to agree on a fair and affordable repayment plan, further steps will now be taken. To clarify, this is not a threat, as you reference, but a procedural formality. YouLend will now proceed as previously communicated and pass your case to a third-party debt provider.
Regards,
J
The advice we were given was correct. It didn’t matter what bank statements we gave, or how much we begged and explained our every job seeking move over the last few months, YouLend were going to pass our account onto a third-party debt collector. Knowing we have nothing apart from the house we pay a mortgage on, this is how they chose to proceed. It can only mean they are now coming after our house.
THE STRESS IS OVERWHELMING
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